hello to all and thank you for any advice.help in advance. i am sure this will be wordy so i apologize.

i have 2 rattie puppies.... i am not sure if i am having issues, if this is normal and what to do about it...

at the mid of january my wife and i bought a pearl tri male (1. he is a handsome young man and we love him. he became quickly attached to me and not my wife as i am home a bit more than she is (with work). he is a good boy with the exception of a few "hand biting" issues on occasion... my wife started teh bad habit of him sleeping in our bed, and he sits on the sofa with us. he is trained (potty, as well as sit, shake, lay down, etc.)... he really is a good boy. but i think we pampered him too much... his name is BRYSON and is now 16 weeks old today.

now, 2 days ago we picked up a chocolate tri female - BRAELI. she is great as well. very loving as is my boy brsyon. i introduced them outside my house and they sniffed and got along with no other interaction. we brough them inside and the play began, well at least for bryson. braeli wanted to sniff around. please note that she was spayed early and is 12 days into healing. the 1st day they were very interactive but it was all bryson. she didnt want to be bothered and snarled and they wrestled. the growls and snarls LOOKED mean!!! but they also noticeably play wrestled/growl/bit.

day 2 they were very cuddly and bryson even licked her face numerous times in the car. but he struggled for position and pushe dher off my wifes lap. at home thy played/wrestled but after a minute she would ignore him. he wants to play so he goes after her and she gets for lack of a better term "bitchy". she starts snarling and really snaps.  he tries to establish dominance with mounting her which she will have no part in. she did allow it once when my wife was petting her and he hopped up on her. but it was short lived.

last night i slept in "their room" with them as it was bryson's 1st night not in our bed. tehy were content to have me with them. we wnat to wean them out of the bed and into their play room. they are not nor will tehy be crate trained as we are away for 8hrs a day.

how do i know who is dominant? will they establish their own roles in the pack? should i be worried leaving them alone together? will they hurt each other? should i let them fight it out? interfere? when we think they are too rough and i say "enough" in a deep, stern, loud voice they respond. we think they will get along great... but these 1st few days are almost confusing to us. neither of us have had 2 puppies, or seen 2 puppies interact. they are easy to handle with exception of really knowing what is acceptable and was is not with to young pups. are they playing? establishing roles? fighting?

please help us with some knowledge. thank you again!

I only have one....Dink is 8 months old....so I have absolutely no advice on this subject....I just wanted to say WELCOME....and please post pictures soon.

thank you!

i posted a few in the photos: ratties area.

Just read through this quickly, and it's hard for us to tell from your description if this is just playing and adjusting their "pack roles" or more serious.  I would definitely not allow 2 dogs to be loose alone together with no one in the house with them until you know them much better and how they are together.  Since you've posted this it seems you have some doubts so if you are really against crate training then it would be best to keep them separated another way.  The web cam thing is fine except that if they were really to seriously fight - 15 minutes for you to get home to them is more than enough for bad injuries to occur.  (Not saying yours are inclined that way, just saying if they were - 15 min. is way too long).

Mine sleep in the bed, too.  If you really don't want yours there then crate training would be a good choice.

What will happen depends very much on the characters. The key thing however is to observe how the dogs settle issues of territory and status in the pack, and to adjust your behaviour accordingly to maintain the peace. YOU should establish yourself as the alpha.

Some dogs are laid back and sociable and will, in a very short time be like bookends together at either end of a settee (you will have to settle for the floor!). For this kind of dog, issues of territory do not seem to matter and they will quite happily use each other as pillows.

Many new dogs will be nervous at first and they will stay quiet in a place where they feel safe watching what is going on. This is great because they are "learning the rules" of what is acceptable by observing you and the first dog. They will also be worried about what is going to happen next. Dogs like this will usually settle in very well and will relax once they have gone through one or two regular daily cycles ("phew this guy knows I have to go out to go to the toilet, that I need to eat and drink and that I have to have a walk !"

Sometimes the new dog will demand your attention, following you around, lying down next to you etc. If your first dog accepts this, no problem. However your dog may see this behaviour as an attempt by the newbie to move up the pack hierarchy, and may become jealous. If there are any signs of this you will have to monitor your behaviour and make sure you give the first dog more attention and "privileges" than the newcomer.

Sometimes the new dog will try to gain status by taking territory away from the first dog. Making moves on a favourite chair or bed, trying to get a nose into the food bowl etc. The first dog will almost inevitably react with growls and raised hackles at any sign of this. It is usually best to back up the first dog by telling the new dog to stop their behaviour rather than telling off the first dog who is doing the growling. This is usually enough to settle the dogs into a pack hierarchy where the longest established is above the newcomer and both are definitely subservient to you. If the growling persists another option would be by supervising feeding times or by feeding separately (a lot of people do this... I do). In a few cases however it will become clear that the new dog is in fact dominant over the first dog. The first dog may let the newcomer take over a favourite chair and slink away for example. If this kind of dominance is clear there is no point trying to maintain an artificial pecking order. Your first dog would just feel permanently insecure and the newcomer permanently resentful and it would end in tears (probably in both senses of the word). If this happens it is best to allow it, or even to reinforce the new order of things. Of course to make you feel better you could always get two of everything, two armchairs, two settees, two beds. You could then enjoy watching your two dogs comfortable and happy, on their respective bits of furniture from your new vantage point, the cushion on the floor !

I would not leave them alone during the day together unless they are crated. The general rule of thumb for crating is to keep the dog crated one hour for every month of age. My rat terrier is crated every single day and I'm gone 8 hours each day. Trust me... it does not hurt them if they are old enough.

Hope some of this helps you!

i appreciate your response. it is difficult for me to determine and i see it 1st hand. this is my 1st puppy/puppy ownership. so i dont know what to really look for. right now we have bryson gated in his room and braeli gated just outside his room in a section of the hall way. this way they can interact between the gates.

we are hoping to get them to sleep in the room with no whining. we also hope as tehy get older they will have more bladder control. bryson sleeps as late as he can with no issues until i wake him and take him potty... braeli will wake me up to go at like 4am (which she cant do if she's not with us sleeping). i wake up at 5am for work... i need 1 more good hour from her!!!

i love sleeping with them. they are the cuddliest lil guys ever... but my wife and i dont have any bed time contact anymore. we are lucky to peck each other good night before our kids interfere with their kisses!!!!

 Well, I had never seen dogs play like ratties do before I got them....but I quickly figured out it was all vocal and wrestling.  Mine have never broken skin on another one and if one yelps then the other quickly backs off.  But at first watching them it can be scary!

"Private" time?  We just put them in the living room behind the baby gate and let them in later.  It's all logistics!  Now, if you're talking about spontaneous, middle of the night stuff then - just push them away.    

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!! 

very insightful... i have a few questions / points to hit on....

braeli... the new comer.. is not shy... but will not initiate or engage in play with bryson often. 50% of the time she is quite the queen B towards him, snarls and snaps at his approach to her... which is alwyas wanting to play be nipping and nudging... he is NON STOP! and doesnt give up. she will play alone or when SHE wants to interact with him.

He is the 1st. but he is accepting of her and lets her be with exception of playing. he wants his new friend to play with him. he did get  "spikey" once... and i forget over what. so even if she seems more dominant do i still give him TOP DOG (under my wife and I) RIGHTS and then let her later fight for her own? Aren't Fs always alpha over males?

as for furniture... they share the beds and blankies, our sofas, etc just fine. its not a territory issue... its really as simple as:

BRYSON = HYPER + PLAYFUL and wants the same out of his new playmate. BRAELI = CALM + B*TCHY and wants to play when ..

when she doesnt she seems to get AGRESSIVE to me... SNARLS with TEETH SHOWING and they they wrestle... no crying... just really rough.

I could be over protective not knowing what the "norm" is... It really could be nothing.

Uh oh....yep, best they sleep in another room!